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Scooterworld

a.k.a. Edgar ® ------------ "When I say E, you say Z"

Posts: 18,806

Location: The Netherlands

Occupation: Building designer & CAD-drawer :)

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201

Monday, December 6th 2010, 3:25pm

I wouldn't call their method a time-saver; on the contrary, they have to go through a myriad of songs for every fitting component, just because they stick to their approach and refuse to make, most of the time, a fitting melody that could be done easily. And their songs sound flawless: they flow, everything matches, no matter if it's sampled or borrowed from several sources. Not to mention that they often, as mentioned in some interview, closely fabricate/re-create a particular sound instead of just sampling it. I consider their approach an art (and them definitely kings in their field), and not a way to save time or energy, which I believe it does NOT anyway.

True Acid ;) It's quite difficult to search for sounds in like a million of tracks that are aviable, to get them to fit together to one flawless piece. And still giving the track a sound, like if all parts were specially composed for the track. They're masters in that, that without a doubt :)
H.P.'s "The Voice" - "The Myth" > He stands out all above the rest, blonder than the best! :D


May<3

Unregistered

202

Monday, December 6th 2010, 4:01pm

Apology accepted. :D

Quoted

it that it's really easy to create new melodies. You don't need to be a Mozart, you don't need to lock yourself in the studio for two years.



Yeah, I wasn't aware of the apparent easiness involved in formulating and constructing new melodies. I actually regard creating music to be a very delicate and somewhat complex process. Patience is definitely lacking in me to learn to understand how music production works - even though, admittedly, it would give me some credibility in certain debates about their music. With that said though I do have a few thoughts in relation to Scooter's dynamic. Personally, I would've thought going through the process of creating your own sound to be a lot more time consuming than borrowing someone elses melody and working from there. I'd imagine there'd be a lot of worry about perfecting the flow of the track and balancing it with whatever other material you put in there. Perhaps it is indeed my lack of knowledge - but this to me sounds like it'd be an exhaustingly difficult process if starting from scratch. Whereas by using a melody from another source saves you all that effort, instead leaving you with fewer things to do. I'm assuming they take a certain number of melodies samples or whatever, and engineer it in such a way so that it, as you said, flows flawlessly and effortlessly. To me the responsibility of creating your own material means it's open to a lot more complications and maybe disputes that could be born from what's acceptable and passable to your audience. And that leads on to this point;


Quoted

I wouldn't call their method a time-saver



You see, I'd beg to differ and say that it was. Scooter are known to bring out a new album at least every year - so there isn't a great deal of time to work on new material in the first place. According to that interview from TUAO (I think it may have been on the bonus disc?) they said they only spend a maximum of four months working on the aforementioned album. And when asked how they knew their album was nearing completion and eventual release, they replied that it was their management. That alone shows they're forced to work under a tight schedule by whoever is managing them. It is also he who decides when what's finished is fit for release... I think this was Imre's point in the other thread where he mentioned that Scooter had little say in what goes on. And the band themselves have all but admitted this themselves in the past. So faced with this massive time limitation and arguably counter-productive working environment - I think the sampling is born not out of choice, but of the conditions that they're forced to comply with. Granted, I lack musical knowledge to ascertain what's quicker... But my above point is all I got to explain this.


Quoted

But I have only one hope, that they wouldn't use sh/t like Stuck On You ever again!



Funnily enough, I love Stuck On Replay. :)

The Ejaculator

Kelvo fan club

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Location: Berkshire, UK

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203

Monday, December 6th 2010, 4:31pm

The collaboration with Craig David seems to be going ahead on the new album. Allegedly a slower number with an R&B influence. WTF?
Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong.

May<3

Unregistered

204

Monday, December 6th 2010, 4:39pm

And just to add to that;

I think their managing team or manager (Jens?) that they're working under is/are the culprits for this reputation that they've acquired over the years. All the deadlines and rushing that accompanies the said dynamic to make sure their records are finished in as little as a few months -- to me, excessive sampling appears to be the only option that they're physically able to keep up with. Other artists have a great deal of flexibility that allows them to extend release dates and just give out estimations based on the level of progress that they've made... Perhaps Scooter should be a bit more independent too. That way they may have more time to be original. What do you think?

205

Monday, December 6th 2010, 5:16pm

I just can't see it being that way, especially with a band with this level of success. I think the deadlines are something they agree with themselves -- and something they could extend if it came to that. (For example, this new album might come in spring, or a bit later, in early summer, as mentioned in the recent interviews. For another example, there was no new Scooter album in 2008 or 2010 (unlikely to come too within this month).) I think they (Scooter) keep them to whip themselves to work within a schedule (and as we know, they get working longer and longer days the nearer the deadline gets) and also as a way to tell "alright, this album is done now, no need to spend ages on it". And as far as I know they're friends with Jens since beginning, HP especially. I don't think people coming from what I imagine quite free background like CTN would suddenly sign under contract that would for twenty years make them unable to concentrate on anything as much as they want to... This is already a question of identity and pride, and I don't think HP and Rick would make themselves act like brainless monkeys and work in the way they don't want to for their lives's careers. Plus I think the guys naturally want to stay on the top and push out new material instead of doing nothing, and probably the eager fan base is one contributing factor.

Hm, perhaps music to some is a delicate and complex process -- I don't deny that. It's different for different people, and some create it effortlessly, just as others have a way with words and can write, and others draw anything they see, in their distinctive style. Something cognitive stuff, I think. But in my experience creating everything from scratch is the easiest thing for an artist. Taking samples and melodies is not a simple process: first, you have to choose what to pick. Then what kind of track to make of that stuff. Lots of arranging, sequencing, laying the beats. Add other melodies that match the speed and style. (And this is just a very straightforward, oversimplified description -- and their process might be entirely different, I just don't know it.) And all these melodies they have to create and program the way they would a melody of their own. "To me the responsibility of creating your own material means it's open to a lot more complications and maybe disputes that could be born from what's acceptable and passable to your audience," you say. I think that's not very relevant with Scooter since they experiment with so many styles, and even now, whatever they're trying, they're doing it on a whim (as noted in the recent interview). The melodies they take from are most of time from entirely different styles, and often something the basic Scooter fan (whatever that is) might not listen to in the original style, but Scooter transforms it to fit a new style. Making an own melody would be easier if one is too considered about such things; with an existing melody one has to use that and not to change it, if creating new ones one can just make the fitting ones. Now they have to take melodies that fit the song and at the same time make songs that can possibly use the said melodies. For me making an album using existing stuff would take longer than making them on my own.
:rolleyes: This is a signature.

206

Tuesday, December 7th 2010, 12:53am

i agree with a lot of facts hear that has been said regardign sampling, we all know scooter have a knack for getting it inch perfect, and there covers are fantastic,
for me its like 50/50, i would like more original work, but on the other hand scooter kinda make sampling there own work, and as said, they do change the saples slightly so i dont mind so much,
also what may said earlier, i too hope the new album wont be to heavily sampled, and if it is, i hope thesamples aint to new and familier
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peter scotland

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207

Tuesday, December 7th 2010, 12:39pm

he interest of being good album, because taking all this time, they are interests that do a great album, I is around the corner.must not abuse :|


May<3

Unregistered

208

Tuesday, December 7th 2010, 1:29pm

Quoted

I just can't see it being that way, especially with a band with this level of success. I think the deadlines are something they agree with themselves -- and something they could extend if it came to that.




Have they ever wheeled that sort of power though? They do tend to churn out new albums on an annual basis and have for the most part operated this way since the bands formation. Unless a tradition, if you will, is sacred to them and they fear breaking it to be bad luck or something - I see no reason why they haven't extended these deadlines once in the past. Their management obviously holds monopoly over what Scooter are expected to produce and he decides what's ready for release. Their quite possibly one of those bands that are bonded to a contract that gives them very little say in their direction. Yeah, there are a few notable exceptions to this rule where arguably more than a year has passed since the release of one album to the next. This doesn't really discredit or say much to discount this theory though - as these decisions could've been purely from a business deliberation as opposed to an extension to work on new material on their part. That interview that I've cited several times, and the fact they tend to bring out news records in such a short space of time, leads me to believe that their management is responsible for creating some of the bad rep they've received these last few years. It is also why they opt to sample from various sources rather excessively, rather than formulating their own. The conditions they're forced to work under leave no other option. Despite being rused though and created in as little as a few months -- it's sound sounds superb. No argument there.


Quoted

And as far as I know they're friends with Jens since beginning, HP especially. I don't think people coming from what I imagine quite free background like CTN would suddenly sign under contract that would for twenty years make them unable to concentrate on anything as much as they want to...

Hmmm... Maybe they're just in it for the quick buck? By bringing out a new album every year, they're cashing in on the fans that they know will purchase their material (regardless of the effort invested into it) and those that just happen to like the material for whatever reason. With their fame and fortune - I don't think it's that much of leap to suggest this. It may cause some offence to those that worship them as some almighty trio, but it's worth contemplating and considering nonetheless. And besides, this may actually just be one of the conditions that they've agreed to work under in their contract to the record label. They're with Kontor records, aren't they? Perhaps they devised the stipulation. Or maybe, as I believe to be the case, it's Jens who makes all the decisions and figures quantity over quality makes more business sense (which is does, sadly). This all ties in with the sampling that I think makes things easier and more efficient on their part to meet deadlines.




Quoted

. For me making an album using existing stuff would take longer than making them on my own.

We're never going to agree on this! :D


Quoted

for me its like 50/50, i would like more original work, but on the other hand scooter kinda make sampling there own work, and as said, they do change the saples slightly so i dont mind so much,

I honestly don't mind. This debate is more about why they decide to work how they do rather than what's better.

May<3

Unregistered

209

Tuesday, December 7th 2010, 3:31pm

Quoted

It's quite difficult to search for sounds in like a million of tracks that are aviable, to get them to fit together to one flawless piece
Was Behind The Cow a flawless track? :D

That's one thing I'd like to reject also. Not only the supposed extensiveness of effort that goes into to finding suitable melodies and whatnot from the internet - but also the idea that every track is without its error. To insinuate that they've reached the pinnacle of perfection is just absurd in my view. Some of the tracks that they've made, ones that were built entirely around other peoples work, have sounded pretty mediocre... And because some of the tracks don't fit together as nicely as we'd like or come to expect (like Behind The Cow), reinforces, or I dare say substantiates, their confession on working on a schedule that is no where near conducive to a practical working environment. Everything from creativity to originality is compromised in the process of being rushed and having no other option to work any other way. Don't get me wrong, I adore the music they make... But I'm not gonna fool myself by denying something that has quite loudly been expressed by the band themselves. They're not in the music business to please us.

210

Tuesday, December 7th 2010, 3:45pm

For me making an album using existing stuff would take longer than making them on my own.


This is undoubtedly one of the most stupid things I've read this year...or ever! Sorry, but it is...read carefully what you wrote and then think it through...

May<3

Unregistered

211

Tuesday, December 7th 2010, 4:13pm

It just doesn't seem in the least bit rational to me either. Even without a musical background, I can't for the life of me wrap my head around his reasoning. It just seems as if people are trying to rationalize these unnecessary discrepancies in any way they can - irrespective of its dubiousness. He usually makes some of the most intellectually brilliant posts on the forum too. However, this particular argument of Acid's just seems desperate and devoid of any real thought or substance. All I keep thinking of when responding is that some people see Scooter as these demigods that are free from imperfections (maybe greed?) and exist purely to please their fans. Maybe it's denial in some way in relation to their excessive sampling and borrowing other peoples work - I just don't know. There have been accusations of stealing and all sorts that perhaps puts Scooter's credibility as a band in jeopardy. Whilst we do agree with some of the haters points - we don't hate Scooter. We're being realistic, are we not? Something is preventing some people here from seeing sense.

I do hope that doesn't sound condescending though.

212

Tuesday, December 7th 2010, 5:10pm

:D Whether I make sense or not, I will still stand behind my words this time, since it is true to me; I'd get insanely frustrated with picking up samples, altering them to fit, thinking what would fit and where, recreating them, etc... My skills are best at creating new stuff, and I personally can't stand -- if it's me who's creating -- using others' stuff, so it would simply take a lot time and effort, where as creating something on own is more natural and easier for me. I guess this too differs from people to people. (But I won't start creating two albums right now, one using Scooter's methods and one of mine, just to prove my point. :D) And I might add that I still think that three musicians put together could do 100% own stuff much easier than doing what I just described above.

As for all the other stuff, I guess it's a matter of belief, almost -- there's simply not enough evidence for me to think that they'd be held in a tight leash. I just can't imagine HP, a millionaire driving antique cars, saying "yes, whatever you say, my lord," to Jens and going meekly in the studio. From all those interviews I've never even gotten a picture that it'd work that way. All I can see is that they are very free and that many things happen on a whim, such as album style choices, and their spotting good melodies and samples at clubs, HP picking up crazy things as he goes (lakierski materialski, who's got the last laugh now?, etc.), etc. (These aspects I've read in interviews many times.) I don't see them as demigods or anything (honestly!), I see them as a just another band (no matter if they are my favourite one, granted) who work the way that bands do, not the way a Japanese pop-idol does. And even if they were forced to work in whatever mad schedules someone else thinks of (which I just can't see being true), they'd still be the ones making the music, and that wouldn't diminish their geniousness. 8)
:rolleyes: This is a signature.

213

Tuesday, December 7th 2010, 5:15pm

It just doesn't seem in the least bit rational to me either. Even without a musical background, I can't for the life of me wrap my head around his reasoning. It just seems as if people are trying to rationalize these unnecessary discrepancies in any way they can - irrespective of its dubiousness. He usually makes some of the most intellectually brilliant posts on the forum too. However, this particular argument of Acid's just seems desperate and devoid of any real thought or substance. All I keep thinking of when responding is that some people see Scooter as these demigods that are free from imperfections (maybe greed?) and exist purely to please their fans. Maybe it's denial in some way in relation to their excessive sampling and borrowing other peoples work - I just don't know. There have been accusations of stealing and all sorts that perhaps puts Scooter's credibility as a band in jeopardy. Whilst we do agree with some of the haters points - we don't hate Scooter. We're being realistic, are we not? Something is preventing some people here from seeing sense.

I do hope that doesn't sound condescending though.


'nuff said... ;)

The-Flying-Dutchman

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214

Tuesday, December 7th 2010, 6:23pm

@ May<3

reagrding you speak about independence:

I am quite sure scooter is one of the most independend musicans in germany. I think it is scooter who has more to say when talking about music style, release dates and so on. If I am not wrong Scooter ist Kontors biggest financial income and so scooter has some privelegs others do not have ... at least in my opinion

May<3

Unregistered

215

Wednesday, December 8th 2010, 12:31am

Honestly, much of what I've said is taken from the interview on The Ultimate Aural Orgasm CD - where the interviewers asked them questions that were related to both how much time they spend on an album and at what point to they know their new records completed. Rick replied to the latter question by saying that it's usually their product manager that decides when the record is serviceable for commercial release. And when inquired about how they spend much of their time during the developmental phase, they all admitted that they mess around a bit and work under strict deadlines. Their manager will tell them that they have to finish at this date and then they'll cram in as much work as they can during the last few weeks. Additionally, only four hours a day are spent in the studio for working on the new album... This is why I think Scooter operate the way they do. So no, I'd say they were anything but independent in the sense that they can't choose the release dates and decide when and how to work. Being less original, as many fans now believe them to be, is only a direct consequence of the conditions enforced by their management team.

Just found it on Youtube -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqF5zv8PYgw

216

Wednesday, December 8th 2010, 1:45am

regarding the yearly releases and traditional work and so on,
it would seem that the 4th has kinda broke that rule now,
1-there was no 3rd chapter singles collection sadly as i was one of the fans expecting it to come after jay left in 2006
2-the yearly album release has gone now, in 2007 both TUAO and JAOTW came out, in 2008 a re release which i count as that and not a new album so for me the was no new album in 2008, that is a gap there, 2009 UTROTT was out, in 2010, no album but a live release, now it seems as late as summer 2011 before the new album,
als singles have a shorter release gap now, every 2-3 months a new single for the existing album, then for a year nothing, they are pusing the albums material to fast and in the long run creating huge gaps, and IMO a bad thing, people forget and scooter fade till the next release, if it goes sour, than it is a serios bad thing, much like all of UTROTT era, not all bad, but not so hot either
the tours seem the same still at this time, 2006 the WGTLLN tour, 2008, JAOTW tour and 2010 the UTROTT tour, and still the four year live dvd gap,
but now scooter are doing a lot of gigs in the last 2 years, they are litrally touring all the time, which is not a bad thing, but does slow studeo work down a lot
also the 3rd member remians, in the older times by now mike should have gone, but still he remains, which isnt a bad thing, as i enjoy his work andhim in scooter, he is well suited.

so in ways the 4th has been a bit of a rollercoaster ride so far

the only other thing to me nowis when 2011 album comes out, will it be classed as 5th chapter ar still 4th???
PUSH THE BEAT

May<3

Unregistered

217

Wednesday, December 8th 2010, 6:05pm

Quoted

As for all the other stuff, I guess it's a matter of belief, almost -- there's simply not enough evidence for me to think that they'd be held in a tight leash
How do you plan on disputing the information from the above interview?


Just curious.

Scooterworld

a.k.a. Edgar ® ------------ "When I say E, you say Z"

Posts: 18,806

Location: The Netherlands

Occupation: Building designer & CAD-drawer :)

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218

Wednesday, December 8th 2010, 6:57pm

During the soundcheck of the Bremen concert we heared clearly some new version of Posse with new synths added and other musical stuff. On the concert was played the normal version. Bu this soundcheck version sounded very crisp, like some re-edit from posse. Would be interesting to know what the track was made for. ;)
H.P.'s "The Voice" - "The Myth" > He stands out all above the rest, blonder than the best! :D


219

Wednesday, December 8th 2010, 7:43pm

@May: To begin with, this interview is as official as one can be, being on an album, and so it's probably planned more carefully to answer certain questions. I don't think the company would intend Scooter to be seen in such a negative light if it really was so, the truth would be harmful and not let out. When I saw this years back I didn't think that there's anything unusual in this. The whole interview is rather jolly ("melodies" :D). When Rick says (I think) that the manager tells them to finish, everyone's laughing. All of this doesn't make me think that "yes, they have no control over anything". On the contrary... I think the deadline stuff is just a method that works the best for them, makes them push themselves hard. As HP explains, the work gets pretty all-consuming during the last weeks, and mentions how they've always had it that way. If they needed more time I think they could well have it, and the recent two albums (UTROTT and the new one) to me shows that they can take their time. To me this interview or any other doesn't prove that they'd be complete slaves.

@Scooterworld: Cool, thanks for the news. I think I have an idea where it's meant to... :thumbup:
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Traxx

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Location: N - Europa

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220

Wednesday, December 8th 2010, 8:11pm

During the soundcheck of the Bremen concert we heared clearly some new version of Posse with new synths added and other musical stuff. On the concert was played the normal version. Bu this soundcheck version sounded very crisp, like some re-edit from posse. Would be interesting to know what the track was made for. ;)
Perhaps a new version made with the Inferno in mind? :D
" Brilliant! ...I have absolutely no idea what's going on... "

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